New Forum TOS

[n10sive]

There is a new forum "Terms of Service" (TOS) posted here. http://www.sierrasportbike.com/smf/index.php?topic=2652.0

Everyone should please read these.

[XIII]

I suspect that item #6 will be a hot topic...but then again, if it is followed to the letter, then any topic/member that is within it's definition will be removed instantly. Essentially, there will be no hot topics because it would have been erased from existence. I don't approve of it's current wording. I'll just provide a quote (there are many) to illustrate the point.

"Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed -- and no republic can survive"

John F. Kennedy

[rick07r6]

I suspect that item #6 will be a hot topic...but then again, if it is followed to the letter, then any topic/member that is within it's definition will be removed instantly. Essentially, there will be no hot topics because it would have been erased from existence. I don't approve of it's current wording. I'll just provide a quote (there are many) to illustrate the point.

"Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed -- and no republic can survive"

John F. Kennedy

+1 I feel like we can no longer express our opinions as freely as before and feel that with this I will not be on this board as much as I was before. Its sad that it seems to be going this way.

[n10sive]

don't read too much into it fellas. There hasn't been any posts or anything that remotely comes close to these. But...for the sake of consistency, we don't want people to invent the rules as we go along.

[Justin]

Criticism is fine.   I agree with Andre and Rick.  
The board agrees with you, also.
We want to grow, and without input and criticism we're stagnant. Stagnant sucks.

How did John F Kennedy feel about 'shouting fire in a crowded theater?"
Defamation of character?  Patently false allegations?  

The board agrees with you.
We're taking a look at the wording, now.

[XIII]

I suggest to look at established boards and follow their guidelines. Boards like BARF and it's ilk have gone through their fair share of TOS revisions for particular reasons and it should provide a good outline of what the SSA ToS should contain....

...I just read the BARF ToS and it's similar to the SSA one except for line #6

The closest comparison on the BARF board is line #1 under "Responsibilties"

Members will conduct themselves in a respectful manner. This is not to say that arguments and disagreements between Members are not permitted, simply that a level of respect is to be maintained in doing so. Members' posts should not contain malicious personal attacks, flaming, baiting, post whoring (posting with the sole purpose of increasing their overall post count), trolling, e-sniping, e-stalking, indirect attacks, and other such activities that are not conducive to a positive and productive environment. Personal threats will not be tolerated, and may result in a suspension, if not a perma-ban. Such posts will be acted on by interpretation of BARF Moderators.

Now, compare that to the SSA version

6.Members that post comments that are counterproductive to the SSA as a club, smear or otherwise attack the site, the moderators, the SSA, it's members, or executives are subject to suspension and or removal.

The BARF version discourages post that are not "conducive to a positive and productive environment."

The SSA version suggest that it is sacrilegious to speak against the SSA entity

Suggestion: Adopt the BARF standard.

[Oneup]

I have to agree with Andre on this one.

don't read too much into it fellas. There hasn't been any posts or anything that remotely comes close to these. But...for the sake of consistency, we don't want people to invent the rules as we go along.

I don't believe this is entirely accurate.

[XIII]

I have to agree with Andre on this one.

don't read too much into it fellas. There hasn't been any posts or anything that remotely comes close to these. But...for the sake of consistency, we don't want people to invent the rules as we go along.

I don't believe this is entirely accurate.

I didn't want to mention it since it would instantly derail this thread...

Thanks for the input. looking into the BARF standard, Andre.
I like the sound of that BARF standard!!!

Less time creating, more time getting...hmmm... "inspirational guidance." <- that doesn't mean outright plagiarism.

BTW, Andrei is the correct spelling.

[Justin]

Aren't we different than BARF, though?  
They are a forum.
We are an association that makes use of a forum.  
Two different things.
We are people that you know, asked to try to work for the best interest of it's members.
That's different than BARF, and we should be held to a higher standard.


More time creating if one is indeed creating.  For a replica of something else, use 'control C'
Nothing worthwhile is ever easy

[A DRAGON]

I just don't believe in to much sensorship. I understand we need to speak our peace. We also can't have an emergency Ex-Board meeting everytime we see something we don't like. Why do we have Monarators. I trust their Judgement. That's why they are there.

Since we put up this new site. We have only removed posts once that I can recall. We have been asked to remove more in the past and have not. You also must remember SSA runs the site. Why would we let anyone tear it down? Or make Trash out of our club. Free speech is fine. Just not to tear down the SSA. I just can't see that. We have to understand to post on a Website is a PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT. One man put this site up for us and if he ever wants to cancel it. He can. I know it's not very popular, We just don't want things to get out of hand. That's all this is. I really feel it's good for the SSA. We're not a band of Outlaws. Or Gangsters. WE all work every day and contribute to society. Let's not stop There and change When were on our Forum. I believe were all pretty proud of our club and tell a lot of people to log on. So let's remember we all have little ones and elders we look up to that view what we say.Those Little ones, We also tell them what is the polite thing to say and the right thing to do.

So if you have something you really need to say to someone and your pretty pissed. You should tell them to their face. Not hide behind the SSA Forum.

That's my 2 cents.  Sorry if I stepped on someone's toes. I just want to keep it real.  

[XIII]

I just don't believe in to much sensorship. I understand we need to speak our peace. We also can't have an emergency Ex-Board meeting everytime we see something we don't like. Why do we have Monarators. I trust their Judgement. That's why they are there.

Since we put up this new site. We have only removed posts once that I can recall. We have been asked to remove more in the past and have not. You also must remember SSA runs the site. Why would we let anyone tear it down? Or make Trash out of our club. Free speech is fine. Just not to tear down the SSA. I just can't see that. We have to understand to post on a Website is a PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT. One man put this site up for us and if he ever wants to cancel it. He can. I know it's not very popular, We just don't want things to get out of hand. That's all this is. I really feel it's good for the SSA. We're not a band of Outlaws. Or Gangsters. WE all work every day and contribute to society. Let's not stop There and change When were on our Forum. I believe were all pretty proud of our club and tell a lot of people to log on. So let's remember we all have little ones and elders we look up to that view what we say.Those Little ones, We also tell them what is the polite thing to say and the right thing to do.

So if you have something you really need to say to someone and your pretty pissed. You should tell them to their face. Not hide behind the SSA Forum.

That's my 2 cents.  Sorry if I stepped on someone's toes. I just want to keep it real.  

I think that recent events are clouding some visions here so let me put it plainly. I feel that the wording on item #6 needs to be changed to read less like a nazi wrote it to one that expresses firm rules to abide by but still has a welcoming tone.

Jerome: I'm not bringing extra baggage into this discussion. In fact, I deliberately avoided mentioning the "Alan situation" and spoke of the matter at hand and nothing more. Item #6 -> voice concern -> suggest rewording -> await response -> provide good source material -> await conclusion.  Simple as that.



Justino: I don't know the exact history of BARF but...I think you missed the "Synopsis" part of the ToS page.

Synopsis
Bay Area Riders Forum (BARF) was founded in 2002 as an online motorcycle community - a place to share your stories of motorcycling experience with friends, find information, learn from seasoned pros, contact each other to organize rides and activities, and discuss the latest motorcycling news, products and events. It doesn't matter if you simply ride to commute, tear up the twisties or rip it up racing. Maybe stunting is your cup of tea, or perhaps you're addicted to the track or the dirt or both! Adventure riding, touring, or mini bikes might hit your hot button, regardless of your specific interest, this site is for you if you enjoy your bike and, more importantly, you enjoy riding with others.
We focus our attention on group rides, trackdays, racing, training, learning about our passion, social events, and other miscellaneous activities - as well as unbelievable amounts of time online getting to know each other. BARF is not about "us vs. them" - we try to get together with as many other local organizations as we can. Everyone is welcome here, as long as you share that one common interest - MOTORCYCLING!

Doesn't it sound very familiar? What I can say is that this forum did not literally explode and gathered thousands of riders in one night.

[n10sive]

Andrei,

You are making WAY TOO BIG A DEAL out of this. Sorry you don't like 'Censorship' but Jerome said it best. There is not much in the new TOS that has not already occurred on this board. Have we ever allowed Nudity? Political threads? Spoilers? NO. But it was never written down.

As far as  the "Alan business", it is none of yours. Sorry to sound harsh, but it isn't. It is between Alan and the Exec Board. And just to show you how much you DON'T know about the situation, it has nothing to do about this forum or what he did or did not post here. At any rate, if something happens with a member here, or between members here, do we want them coming on the forum trash talking other members, or the club, ruining everyone elses experience here because they are all butt hurt over something? NO

As far as adopting BARF TOS...what do you think was the model of this? Looks familiar? yeah...it should. But a lot was removed from it and almost NOTHING was added except the political/religious threads which Jerome and others have asked NOT to take place here, and the graphics in the sig line (due to complaints).

When I was in the fire service we had lots of rules regarding fires. Every one of them was the result of a fireman losing his life. The BARF rules were all done over years of necessity too.  We've had a few of them actually happen here. Some have not YET been broken and probably never will because of the fact that we don't anonymously post. We actually ride together. But again, what happens when something occurs that is not written down? Do we willy nilly invent things as we go and then get complaints about "What did I do?" "Why me and not him?". We can't. So we have a TOS for FAIRNESS.

If we did what you are excusing us of doing, we would be immediately banning you for bad mouthing the forum and club over the new TOS. But are we? HELL NO! Talk on. Criticize away. All we ask is that you keep discussions civil and respectful. Is that too hard of a request?

Thanks for your inputs. Seriously.
Dale

edit: I also think Justino said it best. We are an association that has a forum that is used for the benefit of it's members. We are not 'just a Forum'. We have, and always will, encourage those that post here to be at our bike nights, track days, and group rides.

[n10sive]

First off, I don't really appreciate the post about "Nazi-like."

Yes...I found this to be over the top too and a slap in the face of those who have been working very hard for the club. Pretty harsh comparison.

For clarity, here is the BARF rule: "Members that smear or otherwise attack the site or moderators are subject to suspension and or removal. "

ours was expanded to include the executive board as we are an association and have one, BARF does not or I am sure it would be in there.

[A DRAGON]

6. Members that post comments that are counter productive to the SSA as a club, smear or otherwise attack the site, the
       moderators, the SSA, it's members or exec. board. may be subject to suspension or removal.

I just don't see the problem. Are we making a mountain out of a Mole Hill?

All were doing is letting you know if you attack the SSA by using our Forum your post may be removed and your IP address will be banned. Every site does this. If the SSA Owns the site. WE should be able to Moniter what is on it. If we feel it's not in the best interests of the SSA We can remove it. Once again Please remember posting on this forum is a PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT.  You can't go into Michael's Suzuki and tell them their the worst dealership and ask them if you can post a banner saying so. Tell them it's your right to free speech. That's Stupid. So why would we allow that to happen here?
           Your always free to start your own Website and you can post what ever you want.

WE don't ask much. I don't think. Is all this really necessary. It's all just down in print. Most of us already figured it out when we started logging on. Let's just ride. [/b]

[Justin]

Thanks Jerome.  Spot on.
That was my interpretation also.


This Zoolander clip saved me today.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOrI6uqS-vk&feature=related



I am now laughing my ass off!
Thank you, Will.